- Other than the United States, which other countries charge citizens returning from foreign travel with violations of domestic laws while abroad? I see more and more references to tourists being prosecuted upon return and of foreign nationals being charged with crimes under US laws for actions performed outside this country.
- Other than the United States, which other countries charges taxes on incomes of their expatriates? Other than US and South Africa, which other countries impose an exit tax on people moving elsewhere?
(I would assume Cuba would be on the list. USSR used to be. Who else?)
Regarding #1 Fairly sure that Austria will prosecute for crimes committed overseas. Remember something about a serial killer that committed one of his murders in the US (California maybe?). I think Israel has something that allows citizens to do their time in Israeli prisons.
Regarding #2 Japan at least used to charge an ‘airport tax’ for leaving the country. Wasn’t much, equivalent to around 20US in 1996. Don’t remember if they still had it in my later visits.
This is something I’ve wondered about for the longest time, as well. It’s one of those issues you’d -think- more people would be up in arms about, but it seems most people either don’t know this happens or simply don’t care.
It’s just further proof that in the eyes of the state there is no such thing as self-ownership. We are all government property.
The US and most 1st world nations view doing things that are against their laws as being prosecutable once you get back to their soil. It’s been that way for a while as far as I know. Fairly certain the US wasn’t the first one with this notion either.
In Norway, it’s illegal to buy the services of a prostitute (it’s not illegal to sell sex however). They can also charge you for using the services of a prostitute in say Denmark, Germany, Holland or anywhere else where it’s legal…
They’ve suggested the same law here in Sweden.
New Zealand charges a $25.00 fee upon exit (or they did six years ago) Australia has charged taxes on gifts sent to family for Christmas, used FedEx, taxes (import tariff, based on value of gifts ) where charged to family when they picked up package, customs form (US side) clearly stated products were gifts, never happened using USPS.
Not sure what the point of this post is. You can’t be saying that Americans should be immune to illegal actions while abroad. Should the USA suddenly stop charging the animals that go to Thailand or other screwed up places to have sex with childeren? I didn’t realize that it infringed our civil rights to obey laws.
That may be an extreme example, but do you expect an American lawbook for every country we could possibly find ourselves in? Exactly which “tourists” are being charged with crimes that you feel compelled to defend?
By that same analogy, a British subject could come to the US and be prosecuted upon return for handling a type of firearm prohibited back home. Or a person from some Middle Eastern country would be prosecuted for drinking alcohol in the US or doing something else illegal back home. If a person goes to Netherlands and has a pot brownie or does something else that’s not legal in the US but is completely harmless to others, why should the US prosecute?
On Thailand and other foreign countries, I quote something written by an expatriate: “The age of consent in many US states is well under 18, but for Americans travelling abroad, the age is the federal age, 18, and Americans can be (and are being) prosecuted under US law for sex crimes in foreign countries, even when they have not broken the laws of that country!”
Mostly due to the philosophical concept of justice and the same concept of the rule of law.
It is only logistical issues that keep them from prosecuting you if you’re outside their country.
More or less, the ‘where’ isn’t the issue, but the ‘where you’re a citizen’ is. In the eyes of every modern judicial system, when you’re a citizen of country X, you gain the protections of being a citizen of country X, but are obligated to observe the rules and regulations of country X. They don’t just ‘vanish’ when you cross the border. Unless, of course, you cross the border, renounce your citizenship and claim the citizenship of another country.
Conversely, if you’re a citizen of country Y and you commit a crime in country X that is against the laws of country X, but not against the laws of country Y, you may full well be prosecuted by the courts in country X, and depending on the nature of the crime, deported or as in the case of Humberto Leal, executed.
If such laws take the weight of a millstone around your neck, well, there is always places like Sierra Leone to move to, where it is close to true ‘anarchy’ and wealth/ might does count as right.
Civilization is a tight-fitting suit that does not always suit everyone. The more of it one has, the less comfortable it may be to some.
I’m very sure that here in Germany people can be charged for having sex with or for the sexual abuse of a child abroad (the Thailand example).
On the other hand I’m just as sure that I can go to the USA (or Austria) for a course in the defensive use of a firearm and return without being charged. Yes, here in Germany it’s forbidden to practice/train defensive shooting even though it would be legal to use a gun in a defensive situation. (IPSC is legal, though the rules od what is allowed are much stricter, IPDA is illegal)
Canada does the same thing regarding sex with minors.
Cuba does not because they do not let their citizens travel abroad (except for their baseball team to compete). 😉
The UK has made it a crime to have sex with someone under the British age of consent abroad. So if you travel to Mexico and sleep with a 15 year old – since the age of consent in the UK is 16, that is a crime in the UK now.
There have also been people convicted of murder in the UK even though the murder was committed overseas.
Israel charges an exit tax, at least for foreigners though I’m fairly certain for Israelis too.
US does charge income tax for foreign earned income HOWEVER at the very least everything under about $85,000USD is tax free (increases a little every year). So I filed for many years from abroad but never paid a dime. It’s really only bad if you earn a lot, though still not excusable.
Also, prostitution is fully legal in Germany. You aren’t charged with buying or selling sex there.
Also where does it say in US law specifically Americans can be charged in the US for legal activity abroad. So if I smoke a joint and hire a hooker in Amsterdam it’s 100% legal. What basis in American law is there to charge me as I’m outside its jurisdiction.
Not sure if there’s a basis for that in the actual law, but I read about US courts prosecuting such things as drug use abroad fairly regularly.
You don’t pay income tax on the first 92,900 of income if you are out of the country more that 330 days.
http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/international/article/0,,id=97130,00.html
Do you have any links/details?
chirol: Some actions outside the US are explicitly criminalized by US law for US citizens (the big example being child prostitution/sex tourism).
I’m not aware of foreign drug use being prosecuted (or what the notional legal basis would be), but I’m not sure exactly what Oleg’s talking about in detail either.