Not surprisingly, photos from the island show numerous rescuers with submachine guns on their shoulders. The mass killing ended when good people showed up with firepower of their own.
Exactly the same happened in Virginia Tech. As soon as police fired on the culprit, he ran to the nearest bathroom and shot himself. I suspect a single person firing back from a classroom would have had similar effect even if not hits were obtained.
Prey animals do not become safer from predators if they are denied horns, quills and claws. Lawful humans are not safer if disarmed by law or custom.
PS: Norway has responded reasonably to threats before. Hopefully, they will treat human threats similarly to how they treat ursine threats.
I agree.. I wish the majority could follow the logic.
It’s impossible for me to look at the number of dead people on the island and not reflect on how the must have just been slaughtered like sheep
It makes me angry that they were obviously deprived of their right of self-defense.
The main problem is that they were kids. Teenagers. Even if Norway allowed people to carry firearms, these victims wouldn’t have had any. This is just a horrible event. Targeting kids. I can see where someone might think a government building is a legitimate target. But then going and gunning down children…no. No way to condone that.
Teenagers should either have arms of their own (as is still common in rural parts of the US) or be protected by adults. Adults were present but unarmed and proved unable and/or unwilling to fight.
That I can see. At least a few armed adults makes a lot of sense. Some with proper training. Not sure that such a place would allow that, but maybe this will change some minds.
As for the teens having their own guns…I am not sure that would work at a campground like that. Hard to take their guns swimming, or canoeing. In a home situation, sure. I would have no problem giving a well trained teen a firearm. My 11 yr old godson has his 10/22 in his own room now.
No minimum age on carry (open or concealed) here in NH – just requires parental permission, under 18.
Works fine for us. No reason it wouldn’t work just fine, elsewhere, as well.
First, note that I am not a lawyer. The following is my understanding of the law but may be incorrect.
While the law here in NH has no minimum age, the actual situation is somewhat more complicated.
For concealed carry of a loaded handgun:
License to carry is covered by RSA 159:6 http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/XII/159/159-6.htm It says “…the applicant is a suitable person to be licensed…”. The State provides the form that the local jurisdiction is required to use and on the back it says “…Applicants not prohibited under Federal or NH law from possession of a firearm shall be deemed suitable persons…”. Case law generally supports that and I know of one case where a 16 year old was licensed. However, that case involved the son of a politician and the son was very experienced, had competed at Camp Perry, etc. In other cases the court has supported jurisdictions that refused to grant one to someone under 18 because they were not considered a suitable person.
We almost got rid of the requirement for a license to carry this year. There was a complicated mess involving competing State RKBA groups and the NRA that screwed it up. We may do so next year.
For open carry of a loaded handgun:
So far as I know there is no NH law prohibiting someone under 18 from open carrying a handgun. I am less clear on Federal law. Federal law 18 U.S.C. 922(x) does permit temporary possession by someone under 18 with the parents permission. However there may be other Federal law or case law that would prohibit general open carry.
The bottom line is that the legal system is more complicated than it may seem from reading the text of a particular law. Before I were to let my minor child open carry a firearm away from my home I would check with a lawyer who was an expert in this area.
The fact that the law is so complicated is a travesty of justice but that is the case.
I know of a 12-year-old who was issued a CCW, here.
I’m not aware of any Federal caselaw which would allow them to prohibit possession of a handgun by a minor. US v. Lopez is pretty specific on how limited their powers in that realm are.
I don’t think Norway will react unreasonably, with acts like limitations to the right of its citizens to keep arms. This was not an act of spree killing “per se” such as Virginia -Tech or Columbine; this was an act of domestic terrorism planned since 2009, that could not have been stopped by tighter gun laws.
On the other side, Police in Norway is typically unarmed, and this is what lenghtened the response and caused the death toll to raise…
From the incidents I’ve seen, it is a very rare exception where the gunman continues after taking return fire of any sort. Doesn’t matter whether it is an official or a civilian, or a carry gun vs long guns–Jeanne Assam was a civilian, outgunned, and still stopped a madman.
A probably quite improper suggestion, but still. How about a poster with an aerial picture of utöya and the text “when seconds counts, the cops are an hour away”.
Where would I find a high-resolution photo of that?
I dont know about the ownership of this picture, but it may be good enough.
http://krulli.se/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/ut%C3%B6ya.jpg
Otherwise i guess that google earth could help.
http://img.ibtimes.com/www/data/images/full/2011/07/23/136033-an-aerial-view-shows-utoeya-island.jpg
[IMG]http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/9599/boatsarehard.jpg[/IMG]
By [URL=http://profile.imageshack.us/user/darkknight9]darkknight9[/URL] at 2011-07-23
my own hodge podge a few days after… I was boiled about response time.